Listen along to the podcast episode here!

[Ms Amber Red]

Hey, everybody, thank you so much for joining us for another episode with Inspired by Ms Amber Red. We have a very exciting guest today with us. It's actually Sasha and I here, she's hiding over in the corner.

We have Peter with us, and I would like him to go ahead and do an introduction.

[Peter]

Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I'm 44 years young now, since a few days, and I'm a PMU artist since 1994, actually.

[Ms Amber Red]

That's a long time.

[Peter]

Now 30 years this year.

[Ms Amber Red]

Love it.

[Peter]

Yeah, and being located in Stuttgart, Germany, where Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and all the other good stuff come from out of Germany. And now I'm actually here in my studio, midnight, and talking to you guys.

[Ms Amber Red]

I can't believe you said yes to this, and it's so late over there, Peter. You are a rock star.

[Peter]

I'm waiting for so long to talk to you, actually, so we are in contact for so long now.

[Ms Amber Red]

I know.

[Peter]

On Instagram.

[Ms Amber Red]

I know, yeah. Yeah, and that's how we met, I think, was Instagram, right? Like, that's how we first...

[Peter]

The first contact was on a masterclass from GI. I don't want to say the name now. And I buy a masterclass from your winged eyeliner and get addicted to it.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. So, okay, because you've been doing permanent makeup for a very...longer than I have. So, is there something that you're more known for?

What would you say your favorite service is? Or is there something that people are like, Peter, I want you to do this for me?

[Peter]

The most... There's two bases. So, one base is coming for eyebrows, because I'm addicted to eyebrows, totally, and a lot of stuff in lips.

But eyeliner in Germany is not that popular at the moment.

[Speaker 3]

Okay.

[Peter]

So, I don't know why. It's just, I think, about all the stuff that they do here, it's a little harsh to the skin, and they hear so many bad things about it. So...

But I'm working on it.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. Yeah. I know.

I've been working on it, this man over here. Peter, you have literally, I think, taken every single course that I even have out available. Yeah, I think so.

[Peter]

During COVID, I invest more than 25K for masterclasses online, because I was bored out here. So, and the stuff that we get in Europe actually is so boring as well, because we have all the time single needles and whipping and all this stuff. And I see your work, especially in the beginning with bigger needle groupings, and I'm coming from the tattoo industry.

So, I learned first tattooing before I started doing permanent makeup. That was my way. Because in that store that I started training, they give only the apprentice to first do tattoo and then start over to doing permanent makeup.

As well, I was 14 years old at that time.

[Ms Amber Red]

That's awesome. You have been, so you have seen a lot go, like, so in the industry. So, you started, you said, in the tattoo world.

So, a little bit on, like, were you doing body tattoos?

[Peter]

Yes.

[Ms Amber Red]

Okay. And so, you're doing body tattoos. And, I mean, obviously, coming from the body tattoo, you're familiar with so many different needles, right?

Like, so how was that transition into permanent makeup for you? Was it slightly confusing as to, like, why are people using the single needle for everything? And, like, did you feel like you should have brought some of the tattoo industry over into permanent makeup?

And did you bring it over with you?

[Peter]

So, yeah. In that age, I don't do that. So, in that age, I was so influenced from adults.

And they all the time say, you have to do it like we say. So, they all the time sit there with single needles and work for hours and hours on clients. So, and, of course, the question comes for me after several years, why we don't do that with bigger needles, like a 23 curved mag or something like that.

So, you could cover that service down to a short amount of time and the customer don't have that much pain or something like that. And then they started to, all the time, discuss with me and so on. And then I start 2007 for a company that is a producer here in Germany for tattoo needles and machines.

And in that time, it was the first time they hear me about bigger needle groups. So, I start working with five round shaders and so on, especially for lips, but still eyebrows and eyeliners, single or three round liner, nothing else. And then after a time, they're starting out going bigger, but still in Germany, the most popular service that you see is single needle or microblading.

[Ms Amber Red]

Okay. Kind of like here. Yeah.

A little bit, right? I mean, I feel like that's changing. It's shifting a little bit.

It is shifting a little bit. I don't know where the mindset came in that single needle should be used on everything. And just, I know everybody's going to kill me for saying that, but I'm just wondering where that came from because when I go, and I'm going to use a stupid, I think it's an analogy, but if you go to paint, like I have an art background.

So, you go to paint, say you're painting a bigger canvas and I want that whole canvas covered with paint. I'm going to use, I need to paint this whole canvas. Like, what's the quickest way I can get this done?

I'm going to use a big ass paintbrush and I'm going to cover it, right? But instead, I'm going to use, my mindset with the single needle thing is they're using little tiny detail brushes to fill in the canvas. And I'm like, I'm so confused.

When you say it like that, it visually helps me see. It makes more sense. Oh, well, sorry.

No shade. No, but you know what I'm saying? We're not, you know, I'm not here to like, cause obviously the people do beautiful work.

There's people that would do beautiful work with all types of needles. So, that is not what I'm, it's just my mind personally is like lips. Some people have massive lips.

We were in Vegas and they got massive lips. Like, sometimes I have lips that are so big that people, when they come in and I'm like, I'm going to make sure that I don't have to touch these up. I literally, I've had two clients in the past year that if I had to touch up those lips, I'm going to like fall over and just die because they're so big.

So, guess what? They didn't need touch-ups on those lips. Like, I, you know, cause I'm like, no, that, that took way too long.

Even with, and that's me using an 18 round shader. And I'm like, if somebody was using a single needle on lips that size, I would like fall asleep halfway through the procedure.

[Peter]

Oh, definitely. Definitely.

[Ms Amber Red]

And it's so time consuming too.

[Peter]

You see it here all the time. The most Europeans do it like that. They sit there with single needles for three to four hours to bring the color in and have to do that three to five times that they get the final result.

[Ms Amber Red]

I can't.

[Peter]

Even they need to touch up so much.

[Ms Amber Red]

I, I am, I'm like, I, I do two passes, but I really do like first pass. I mean, I put like those half lipsy photos, like pretty regularly. First pass, we get a buttload of color into the skin.

And so second pass really is just like an overlay to make sure everything is blended nicely. I'm not, it's not second pass. I'm saturating now.

Like, no, I'm saturating, you know, first and foremost is my number one priority. And then, I mean, and you can saturate. I mean, I think people get scared with larger needles and they think like we're going to oversaturate.

I think is what they think. Like, but if I, you know, come from body tattooing, if you dilute the pigment down, if I dilute that pigment down and I'm creating, you know, what would be considered like a gray wash in, you know, in body tattooing, but I'm diluting the lip pigment down now and I diluted it 50%, well, then my healed result is going to be 50% of that color. To me, that is how my brain works.

And it doesn't matter that I'm using, you know, now I probably wouldn't do that. I don't know if I would do that with a single needle because it's implanting just a dot of pigment. And that's time.

So you have to remember I'm using an 18-round shader. But I just feel like I have so much control using a large needle. I know I can do a lipstick look.

But now if I'm scared of that, how do I get a lip blush out of it? You just dilute the pigment down or make your circles bigger and move faster. That will give you a softer result.

[Peter]

That's true. But that is also a problem here in Germany. They don't teach that thing.

They don't have companies here that show you how to dilute a color or to mix even a color. If you have different shapes and the main thing, I think, the main problem in that thing is, in that case, that they don't get how the color will heal in the lip. So this is the most part of it.

They just think, oh, this is the color in the bottle. It needs to look like that.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah.

[Peter]

And it never looks like that.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, well. Sounds like, you remember that idea I told you about a long time ago, Peter, that I said was on my list? I haven't forgot about you over there, buddy.

I told him I said I want to come there. And I literally want to go over to Germany. I want to make Peter a master trainer with our techniques.

I want to spend a couple days. We didn't even talk about this in depth like I'm going into right now. But I have this idea.

So then that way these techniques can be more spread worldwide. Because I do know that that type of thing isn't taught normally. So I'm like, why not have a couple of kick-ass master trainers spread in key places around the world?

And then plus, Peter, then we can just travel and see each other and go visit all these cool places. Yeah.

[Peter]

Oh, yeah.

[Ms Amber Red]

That sounds good, Peter.

[Peter]

And we have a lot of cool places here.

[Ms Amber Red]

I'm like, Peter, are you on board with that?

[Peter]

I'm on board with that. I also would be on board of that. I come for a four-weeks apprenticeship.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yes.

[Peter]

I can't even spell that word. I come for weeks to Vegas and stay there.

[Ms Amber Red]

Heck, yeah. Yeah, I remember we talked about that a little bit too. Heck, yeah.

Well, we'll hold out on that because I might be coming to you a little sooner. So we'll see. So you were told not to, or not to.

We'll say that lightly. You were advised, I should say. You were advised to do permanent makeup a little bit differently.

So you said you did get out of just using single needles a little bit. Are you comfortable now using an 18-round shader on lips?

[Peter]

Easy going.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yes. Love that.

[Peter]

I see the techniques from your master classes. If I see something and I want to know how to work it out, I sit on latex till I die.

[Ms Amber Red]

Absolutely.

[Peter]

In the beginning, it was like, why the color don't go in? So I'm ultra light-handed. Even I was on a master class here with a friend of mine.

She's working with me together as a trainer in Hamburg, in the north part of Germany. And we make a master class with shaded eyeliner with Magnum needles.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, cool.

[Peter]

And she all the time said to me, Peter, you're too light-handed. If you want to cover this technique in a short amount of time, you need to use your hands deeper. Do it.

[Ms Amber Red]

So, Peter, because I think I actually saw a post. I'm on those learning boards from time to time. And I've seen posts.

I see them regularly. And I know what causes that. But I'm going to ask you, what is it?

So why do you need or why are you not getting or were not getting, why were you not getting the saturation when you moved over to a larger needle? So your pressure, right? So when you have a larger needle, so we're talking, say we're using an 18-round shader, it's covering now.

I just answered the question for you. I was going to let you answer. But it's covering more surface area, right?

So it takes more pressure to get those needles because it's covering so much more area versus the single. It takes more pressure to get all those needles to penetrate the skin, right?

[Peter]

First that and the second thing is when you're coming from that background with all the time whipping the machine, you need to understand that your hands don't need to shake. It needs to be constant. All the tiny things to cover that is not that easy if you don't see it right and if you don't train yourself right.

So I still have clients where I don't do it perfectly in the first touch. But who cares? We have to touch up for it.

But a lot of other inspired artists that talk with me, I have a private WhatsApp group with some PMU artists here in Germany. They're all on single needles. They have discussions about bigger needle groupings where I say, okay, you cut the skin more.

Interesting. But the single needle is like you slice with a hot knife through butter.

[Ms Amber Red]

Literally. Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, that's literally.

And less pressure with a single needle because if you put too much pressure with a single needle, like you said, it'll just slice right through.

[Peter]

And even if you see all the artists on the work from them on Instagram or something like that, they have so swollen lips. When I see first time your lips on Instagram, I watch that photo, read the caption that you work with it on an 18-round shader and think, okay, why is she not swollen?

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. In and out of that skin.

[Peter]

It's unbelievable sometimes. So then I started and I also love to using MACs on lips.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yes. For about four years, I used an 11 mag on lips. I really loved it.

The only thing that made me change over is the fact that I do, I kind of fell into this like teaching newbies thing. And I don't know where that came from. I just like very new people.

Maybe you were talking to artists that have been in the industry for maybe, I don't know, six months to a year. And the first thing they learn, in my opinion, should be eyebrows. So they were learning eyebrows and they were doing circles.

And then they would come back. They would come back, they would learn lips. And then they'd be like, hey, Amber, now teach me eyeliner.

Hey, Amber, now teach me lips. Well, they were already using an eight-round shader on eyebrows. So my brain was like, well, if I'm going to teach somebody lips, if I can get the same exact result with another, say like a larger shader than an eight-round shader, so the 18-round shader, if I can get the same result and do the same movements, how easy is that to move somebody from brows, eyeliner to lips?

Literally, I'm using round shaders. I'm doing exactly the same thing, the circle movements. And I'm just taking them now from brows, eyes to lips.

It makes it so much easier for that new person that's trying to figure out like a certain way to do things to follow along from each of the different areas. So that's when I made the shift rather than because I was using an 11, like a straight edge mag. So with that, like you have to make sure that you're holding it right, you know, because if you rock it, it's going to slice through the skin like a single needle will.

So you have to be very in control of that needle. So I eliminated that factor so they, you know, wouldn't mess up on lips because God forbid you mess up on lips. It's like a whole other situation.

So when I changed to the 18-round shader, and then people just started nailing it. And I'm like, it's because they're already, by the time they get to lips, they've already had that practice with that eight-round shader or that five-round shader. They've already had that practice with those movements on the brows and on the eyeliner.

And now we're just taking it to a different area on the face. Now we're just transitioning it right into the lips. And it just flows so well and so easy rather than trying to add, oh, well, you've got to use this needle and then figure this out and you can't move it this way.

And like, so that's why I switched.

[Peter]

But it's awesome because so you get out of many problems. Even they get not frustrated if they learn a new technique.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah.

[Peter]

So you cover all that stuff.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. And then like if you're, you know, if you are struggling a little bit, I think if you have a certain way that you're doing things, it's kind of like if you go to do an eyebrow, you don't put six colors into your mix. Try to put the less amount of mixing, the better.

So I always try to stick to, you know, maybe two colors and maybe just a little bit of modifier like if needed or, you know, a little like a drop or something. But no more than that because if something goes wrong, it makes it easier to pinpoint what's going wrong. So I think that that's where my mindset came in with switching over to the 18-round shader because I'm like if they already have that figured out, then one less thing to worry about.

And then if something happens, we'll know it's at that point maybe their pressure for instance, maybe they're not pressing, you know, pressing hard enough with the needle to get the implantation versus it being something else.

[Peter]

But there's another thing that I found very interesting. When I start working with bigger needle groupings, I also don't have that much the problem about hairpiece infections like florals or something like that. Because with single needle, I have it a lot with the clients, even if they don't have it before.

And after the bigger needle groupings, it's quite softer and gentler for the lips.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah, and I've done a few. Like I think I just did one recently. I was using a – okay.

I shouldn't say this out loud, but I'm going to. I used a three-round liner. I shouldn't have used a three-round liner.

I really wanted to use a three-round shader. I mean she's a client that's been with me forever and was like, Amber, I just want that little pixelate. I just want pixelation.

I just want – I was like, whatever. Come here. I can figure it out.

But I didn't have a three-shader. I wanted a three-shader, but I did a three-liner. And I just – even with that, I'm just like I hate my life because she has big lips too.

And I'm like why am I using such a small needle? I'm like I feel like I could just whip shade. Maybe I should just whip shade with an 18-round shader and just see what happens.

I'm like I'm pretty sure at this point I could probably get pixels with that if I tried.

[Peter]

It's horrible. And then you sit so long time for that lip.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, man. So, Peter, are you doing – you said are you doing trainings and stuff?

[Peter]

I do trainings only for experienced artists here in Germany because I do not have the time to take apprenticeship.

[Speaker 3]

Apprenticeship.

[Peter]

It's a timebreaker here.

[Speaker 3]

Yeah.

[Peter]

So, I educate people here even in permanent makeup and also piercing and facial techniques. So, I'm also aesthetician. So, my store is facials, anti-aging techniques and permanent makeup, piercings and stuff.

So, I teach all that stuff together, sometimes in between and sometimes only teaching.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. I find it kind of comes in waves. It's like sometimes you're really busy with teaching and then sometimes you're really busy with clients and sometimes you're just busy with just business stuff.

[Peter]

Instagram.

[Ms Amber Red]

Peter, you kill it on social media.

[Peter]

Yeah. But you should know my account works since day one on Instagram and moves on in Germany here. So, it's a lot of work.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, man. Yeah. We find – it's mine.

She's down here listening. I don't know why. Sorry, Peter.

My phone is talking over here and I have no idea why. It literally is okay. Yeah.

Oh, she shut off. It's okay. That is so weird.

She literally just started talking and I was like, what is she saying? Anybody else hear this? Is it me?

No. I was like, what? That was funny.

Oh, I was going to say social media. Yeah. I'm like, I'm kind of – we've kind of shifted more over to like TikTok.

I love TikTok. We get a lot of people that find us on TikTok rather than Instagram. I kind of have been slacking on Instagram a little bit, but I don't want to say slacking, but I'm kind of using it just as like an online portfolio more so and then we always have fun on stories because that comes pretty organically.

But other than that, I'm like, I don't know. I think my IG is like falling off a little bit, but TikTok we do really good on.

[Peter]

Yeah, but here in Germany TikTok is more for very young people.

[Speaker 3]

Oh.

[Peter]

It starts switching over now. So now the older generation jump onto it. But the main focus here in Germany is for the younger people.

We have content creators that are age 65, but still the younger people watching it.

[Ms Amber Red]

Well, if they're starting to switch over, you better hop on that now. You better get a face up on TikTok now if people are starting to head that way.

[Peter]

I have a TikTok, sweetheart. And I also watch all the times your lives.

[Ms Amber Red]

We love those TikTok. I mean, okay, I can't say I love the TikTok lives. I have fun on the TikTok lives because I feel – but TikTok, you're right.

It's full of young kids. But you know what? Where are you going to get 33,000 people watching you in 30 minutes?

Because our numbers are so high on TikTok versus any other platform. So I'm like – and then the second that TikTok ends, the second we get texts, we get phone calls, people visiting the website, and our stuff blows up. I'm like, so they're – I don't know.

It works. People are sleeping. I feel like sleeping on.

How many followers you got – or followers. Are they followers on TikTok? Friends, yeah, I think so.

Friends. How many you got on TikTok? I know you kill it on Instagram.

[Peter]

No, on TikTok it's not that much. It's 4,500. So I need to work more on that.

[Ms Amber Red]

No, that's pretty good though. I think that's a pretty good number, yeah. We – who know?

I mean, what is viral even? But we had a few videos that went to like 16.8 million.

[Peter]

That's viral. Yes, I see.

[Ms Amber Red]

7 million, 20 – like, yeah, so many millions.

[Peter]

21 million is your highest rating.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Peter knows.

[Ms Amber Red]

How do you know that, Peter? How do you know that? I don't even know that.

[Peter]

I stalk all the time.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, my God. I love you to pieces. You're so amazing.

[Peter]

You have a nice group of girls around you that can make all that stuff with you. So my husband now sit at home and take care of our puppy.

[Ms Amber Red]

Oh, I wish I could be the one to sit at home and take care of the puppy. I want to do that life.

[Speaker 3]

Oh.

[Ms Amber Red]

I'm going to tell my husband that he needs to step up and let me be a dog mom. Oh, goodness. Well, Peter, I don't know how our time is coming to an end already.

But I would love to have you back on the show. Is there anything that you want to leave us with? Like you want to tell them like your social media handles so that way people can reach out to you?

Do you want to talk any more about your trainings or anything in specific before we head off?

[Peter]

So you all can head up with me on Peter Benstown Beauty on IG. I would love to. So about my trainings, I can't talk that much because I make it individually.

So if somebody reach out for me and have specific questions, I answer that for, of course, directly if I can.

[Ms Amber Red]

I love that.

[Peter]

Yeah. For me, it's individual because all come from different parts of working. So you need to take them by hand and bring them to the goal.

[Ms Amber Red]

I do the same thing.

[Peter]

For me, it's an individual business.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. Yeah, I do the same. So like when they reach out to you, it's kind of like a customized experience.

So like if they need brows or if they need eyeliner, they might need one, you know, a couple days here and a couple days of that, like depending on where they are in their permanent makeup journey. I love that. All right.

I'm going to also, I'll put your little details so people can find you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Peter]

I have to thank you that you have me, that you be with me. Absolutely.

[Ms Amber Red]

And don't worry, I'm going to be reaching out soon. I told you I randomly message Peter sometimes. I'm like, I haven't forgot about the idea.

So I will definitely be in touch for that. All right.

[Speaker 3]

I'm on it. I count waves.

[Ms Amber Red]

Thank you so much for joining us. And now I have to do that outro thing. All right, guys.

Thank you so much for joining Peter and I and Sasha today on this episode. That was amazing. And again, I will put Peter's info down below so you guys can check him out, give him a follow.

And as always, Sasha. Like, comment, share, subscribe. All the good stuff.

All right, guys.

[Speaker 3]

Bye.

[Ms Amber Red]

Bye, Peter.

[Speaker 3]

Bye.