Smart Business & Avoiding PMU Scams!

business permanent makeup podcast
Ms Amber Red and Brows by Jackie Batts

Have you checked out our newest podcast "Smart Business & Avoiding PMU Scams" with guest permanent artist Jackie Batts?

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[Speaker 2]

We just found out that he has cool sound effects and changes my voice from like a robot to like, I don't know, all sorts of crazy shit, man. Oh, there we go! And for some reason I have to talk like the ******.


[Speaker 1]

She's like, oh my God. God. Can you hear that?


Weird play.


[Speaker 2]

Look at this. Oh my gosh. Hey, girlfriend.


Hi honey. I should do an intro. Hey guys, thank you for joining us for another episode of Inspired by Ms Amber Red. Today we have something a little different. We got Ms. Jackie here. Yeah, if you guys don't know Jackie, I want to actually introduce you to her real quick. Let her give us a little background information on, you know, who she is, where she's from, what she does, all those fun things.


So, Jackie, you're up, girl.


[Speaker 1]

I am a permanent makeup artist in San Diego. I'm one of Amber's many, many, many, many, many students. She was my fifth trainer in 2018, the fifth certificate in 2018 or, I don't know when I see, I was definitely 17 or 18.


I'm like, oh my God, that was so long ago. I know. But no, I found you on Instagram, mostly because I wanted to get that eyeliner myself.


But I also was starting brow, doing tattooing on brows, background on me. I am an aesthetician and I've been an aesthetician since 2002, so I just celebrated my 21st year in business. I've been an independent contractor, meaning I worked for myself running a room for, for 18 of those years.


I've been at one particular location for 16 now, so I specialize in brows and I have specialized in brows for a full 18 years. So I really do brow waxes, bikini waxes, and now at about 2017, I decided to add microblading to my eyes. As you know, just an add-on.


That was a joke, so we'll get into that in a minute. And yeah, if you're not going to take a full stance in determinant makeup, then don't bother because it's not the right way.


[Speaker 2]

Right? Because there's so much that goes that's like involved in it, right?


[Speaker 1]

It's so much more than you think it is. And even I was duped by the marketing BS that was happening in 2016 and 17 when we all started, it was really, the truth of the matter is, this is a very serious thing that you're doing. You're tattooing someone's face.


So if you are going to take it seriously, take it seriously. That's the bottom line. So after a long time of specializing in eyebrows, there was that point in my career that I couldn't really do anything if you didn't have hair.


So the next step for me was tattooing. And so I started looking around and my first course was a mistake. We'll just go with that.


Microblading course that, of course, told you that they were going to do it all, and that didn't happen. So I immediately started doing better research, found, I found Taryn, and through Taryn, I found you, started talking to you and knew I wanted to get the eyeliner done. And I remember having that conversation with you of like, I want this so bad.


How do I get this? And can you train me? And you're like, well, I don't do training and tattooing on your face at the same time.


So yeah, it's got to be two separate things. So yeah, I came out to Vegas for the training and I stayed an extra day and got my eyeliner tattooed. And since then, I never took it as seriously as I did until I really got into that training.


And at that point, I met better people. I was introduced to a whole different world of eyebrow obsession that just like, when you find your people, you find your people. So it was that moment too.


[Speaker 2]

We literally talk about that all the time, like on the podcast, we're like, oh my God, like our, you can feel it like immediately. Like if you belong, it's like you just are belong. But you know what I mean?


Like you just feel the vibe from people you know if you belong together.


[Speaker 1]

Yeah. It's pretty simple. But yeah, it was pretty immediate.


Like you taught the right way, you supported the right way. That was something that I hadn't experienced. So that was really refreshing.


[Speaker 2]

And we still talk to this day about tech. I mean, you still message from time to time and like, I'm like, it's that vibe that like I think the industry like needs, like we need that support. Or I was just talking to the girls actually.


And I was like, you know, anybody that's ever taken a class, like what would be wrong with just offering those artists to come back and just take a shadow day. Like a shadow day, just being in the studio for free. Like you're paying your way to get here, obviously, but just paying, you know, to come just shadow just to make sure that, you know, what you, what you learned, like, you know, just a refresher down the line or like whatever it is, just open up that to be like a community.


I think that'd be a really awesome thing. And I think it's something that's also offered.


[Speaker 1]

I've noticed in training too that shadow day is such a good idea. But like when in training, if you learn something and you see it done that day, your brain might flip it, you know, it's like, you might need to see it again up close in person to really get it tamarind sometimes. I'm still on that with lips.


I don't want to get into that, but well, there you go.


[Speaker 2]

There comes a shadow day. Jackie, hit me up if you want to come just watch some lips. You mentioned a couple of things.


So I was actually like, as you were talking, I was like, okay, check, check, check. Let's talk about those things. So you mentioned early on when you first got into permanent makeup, like the marketing.


So what did you mean by that? So like your first class, you're kind of bummed. I think that's something that everybody can relate to.


And they're like, what the heck? Like, you know, what do I like? How do I find the right class?


And then how do I, you know, not feel like afterwards that like they just took my money and they're not there for me. Like what do you mean by marketing of that class, like early on, you're like, okay, I'm new. I didn't really know like what direction to go.


I was trying my best. I looked at, you know, they said they promised me that, you know, I was going to get this, this and this and I was going to make $100,000 a year right off the bat. Like what does that look like?


[Speaker 1]

I can start by one specific word, semi-permanent. Like, do we want to talk in detail about what semi-permanent tattooing is? It's absolutely not.


They're at least semi-permanent. When you get something tattooed on your skin, you will always, as an esthetician, I've seen, I've been seeing skin for 20 years up close. And if you cut open your skin, you're going to have a scar there.


Is that considered not permanent? That's permanent to me. So I not like the semi-permanent of course, it was, I was a little skeptical, but I thought that maybe everybody's doing that.


There's something, there's got to be something behind it. No, no, it's not semi-permanent. It just fades, but you're left with something.


They are permanently there. Yeah, right. Something, a maintenance of some kind.


So it's the marketing of it, of being carefree and you just got to do it, it's super easy. It's a little more in depth than that.


[Speaker 2]

What's weird to me, actually, that you say that, it's weird to me that, excuse me, I'm extra stonio today, I apologize. What is weird to me is that like, I feel like when clients come in, they automatically relate it to a tattoo and they think it's going to last forever. With new artists and industry coming in, you get the opposite of that and they think it's their train to think it's semi-permanent.


So it's like we're battling, especially as a trainer, you battle both sides. You're like, okay, I'm taking clients and they think it's going to be like a body tattoo, it's going to last forever. But then I'm taking on, you know, students that are just, because I specialize, I feel like a newbie.


So it just kind of threw me in there, but they are initially trained, you know, to think that, hey, this is semi-permanent, it's going to fade, anything I do is going to be gone. And it's like, whoa, it's like literally two different places there.


[Speaker 1]

And I've definitely had those experiences where I think it's not going to stay and it's stayed. And you know, like you do all the work of it's going to stay like crazy and it goes away. You with tattooing, it is so much more in depth.


It is not a weekend class. It is years of training. It's a fully encompassed, you have to put all of your effort into it.


And after my first class and within the first month of doing microglading, illegally or unlicensed or whatever, because my first class was not registered with the health department. It was a scam. The person who trained me had been doing it for eight months.


And that was rampant in 2017. It was so because marketing had made it super easy to drop $3,000 and with the promise that you are going to be a millionaire at the end of the year with all these clients lining up for you to cut their face open after learning about it for a weekend. And that was, they marketed it so well that everyone believed it.


And it's still, we're still getting the ramifications of it by having to manage everyone's expectations.


[Speaker 2]

Right. And I think too, like they don't tell you all the other things that go into it, right? It's like, at the end of the day, it's like, are you just done tattooing and you go home?


No, like you're sitting there and like, if you're a business owner, okay, well, now we have the studio stuff that we have to take care of. Now we got to sit down and make reels. We got to do social media.


Now it's like balance it to you.


[Speaker 1]

What about all the clients? They promised you, how are you going to get them to walk in the door?


[Speaker 2]



[Speaker 1]

Have you even talked about any kind of business, you know, planning? Have you thought about how you're going to pay your rent every day?


[Speaker 2]



[Speaker 1]

You're going to buy your products? How are you going to start a business? How do you do this?


Yeah, right. How's you?


[Speaker 2]

Right. I agree with you 100%. So that was, how do you, how was that journey?


You started with that class that you were like, oh shit, like I just spent all this money. And then, you know, I'm in a new world. And did you have a clientele that you like had a huge clientele?


[Speaker 1]

I was super, super lucky because I had been specializing in eyebrows, waxing eyebrows, yeah, pinching eyebrows, all the brows in East County of San Diego.


[Speaker 2]

So thanks. You had people that were like, you know, well, line enough.


[Speaker 1]

So I didn't necessarily have to do anything in the beginning, but I also was definitely aware enough that I needed to do it correctly because of this reputation that I had because I started my business as an esthetician with business help. So coming into permanent makeup, I did see it differently because I had built my business as an esthetician. And I knew that this needed to look assert the permanent makeup world needed to look a certain way for it to be successful.


And that had to do with business, you got to plan on how you're going to get your clients in, how are you going to take care of them? And when you take something on like tattooing their face, you have a lot more care that you need to give. You have a lot more presence that you need to be there for.


Yeah. So that wasn't something that they necessarily tell you, they made, they marketed it to be so easy that you could just do it off, do not want to get it easy.


[Speaker 2]

You're just ready to go after you take this two day class.


[Speaker 1]



[Speaker 2]

I can relate to that in a sense, like more so like the business side of things like is the forefront for me is like, okay, so I obviously I did a different, I did a little bit of a different route. I did a five year apprenticeship and then, you know, I saw the business side of things and I saw the struggles and I saw this, but it's a completely different thing. Like over the years, things have changed.


So, you know, I had a road map, but along the way, you have to change things like what was working back five years ago is not working how it is, you know, today that, you know, I have things completely different now, like moving forward and it's, it's almost like it's an everyday changing, I don't want to say struggle, but it's like an everyday changing thing that you feel like it's like, God, okay, that worked, you know, that worked last year, but it's not working this year.


And it's like, I think that business mindset that, like I think that's important to like dive even deeper into because I feel like people that is not talked about because I'm like, and I had a well drawn out roadmap that worked, you know, in 2015, but like from 2015 to 2023, it's completely different.


[Speaker 1]

I mean, just even looking at what happened in 2020 and the way that people are running their businesses now, it is so different before the pandemic and after the pandemic. So, I don't know, it's the basic thought behind business, honestly, I'm really lucky that I work at the salon that I work at because the owner actually, her second business, besides owning a salon is, yeah, she is a business strategist. Oh, so she is a beauty business coach.


Her name is Lexi Lomax. She actually has a 10 minute beauty podcast. Oh, that's awesome.


Yeah, she gives out free information all the time or Instagram is loaded with behind the chair information. So granted, I'm an esthetician. So I was really kind of like excluded because I was behind a closed door and I wasn't all the things that she was, you know, building her business on how to do with hair, but it had a business base.


So with just strategy planning, ebb and flow of how, you know, the market's going and what are you going to do about this? So, okay, you're having a problem. How do we problem solve for that?


How do we plan for products and, you know, marketing?


[Speaker 2]

So, okay, so she does have that business mindset, you know, on the back end. So for you, like, so does she, is she doing that for the entire like salon or studio that you guys are all located within? Like she's kind of taking those ideas and translating them into it.


Are you guys all doing your own separate thing?


[Speaker 1]

We're all independent, yeah, we're independent solo practitioner. So we run our business out of her, her salon and what we have this opportunity that she has the second business of beauty business and business practices that she does run. So through the years, like I said, I've been there for 16 years.


So with her, she started that, she bought that place when she was 19 years old. She's wanting, she's like you. No, stop.


Like she's one of those people that just, it's always on her head. She doesn't stop. She's always like, okay, what's the next plan?


Okay, wake up motivated talking about, you know, what her plans are for the next, you know, but it all comes with planning, consistency and just kind of like rolling with the punches. And I've watched her build her business for 16 years. I've watched her build her both of them, the salon business with me in it.


It's kind of like the beta, you know, she learned and yeah, and learned a lot with us and built this coaching business that is extremely successful. She goes around, you know, the US and, you know, it's all hair. So yeah, I mean, it's still beauty, but it translates to what we're all the time.


[Speaker 2]

I look outside of the permanent makeup world. Like for all inspiration, it's not within the permanent makeup world. Like give a shit less what I've built around me in the permanent makeup world zone.


What are they doing outside? What are they like what cool idea can I take from there and pull it into here? Like, so I don't, yeah, I don't really look.


Cause I feel like within our industry, everybody's kind of like reusing and redoing. Like it's all the same shit just redone. So I look outside for, you know, inspiration.


But so over the years, are there like three things that you think that have been really cool that you've seen or do that like stood out to you? Or even cause I know like the industry, let's like be more relatable. Like within the industry, everybody, you know, they're saying like, it's slower.


It's this, it's, you know, all the, you know, like, you know, the economy, like being lower, like your base talking about it. I prefer not to talk about it being low. I just it pretend like that shit doesn't exist and just keep on pushing.


That's my thought on things, but, you know, everybody else is like, Oh, it's slow. I'm not getting clients. I'm sorry, you guys, but I, you like, I get it, but like the more you focus on negative, the more you're going to get negative.


So stop focusing on that and figure out what you can do to make it different or what you can do to stand out or what you can do, like to connect with people more. Like that's your problem. So cause there are people that are still fully booked, but in your, in that case, like, cause I feel like that's a really good mentor for you to have like kind of in the back, not necessarily, well, I don't want to see she's in the background, but you know what I mean?


Are you within your business, even though that, you know, you guys are all independent? Absolutely.


[Speaker 1]

Absolutely. Actually, specifically she has, it's like she runs her whole business her whole life by something she calls the dream 10. And it's, I don't even think it's like perfectly set to like 10 something, but it's basically that you build your business around the life you want.


You don't build your life around your business. You built your business around the life you want. So for me in this season that I'm in right now, my daughter's eight, turning nine next week, and I take Wednesdays and Saturdays off.


And I work all day Tuesday, all day Thursday. And I have Monday and Wednesday Friday that it's just kind of a half day, but I'm there for her. We go to piano, you know, I'm, I'm able to pick her up.


We have family days on Saturdays and I'm able to actually have quality time with my husband who has a corporate job that I never see him and he's always stressed out and pissing me off. And so it's a good meet. Yeah.


This season in my life, I can build my business around what isn't what is more important for me. And yes, obviously that business, that's my first baby. That's will always be my first love and I, you know, I have so much into that.


But my daughter needs me right now. And my husband needs a little extra support because of, you know, the stress of his job. And I'm able to give him that number one, because of the freedom of this industry and the fact that I'm not tied to my job being what runs my life.


I run my life. My job doesn't run my life. So I, what makes me happy into my life?


I do what makes me happy. And I remember, I think it was like 2017, you know, 16, I remember having a conversation with Lexi and just going, you know, I just want to be a brow expert. I'm tired of doing all the other shit.


I want to do fake joles. I don't want to do any. I'm really good at brows and I'm proud of my brows.


And that's okay. Yes. And within five years, I'm a permanent makeup brow specialist on all levels.


So yeah.


[Speaker 2]

So Jackie, you like dabble, we say a little more than dabble. Like, just like, I'm just like, let's try the G and this and the other. I'm like, so having that mindset, what do you think that does for your business?


So you just having that mindset alone, because I'm a big believer in that. So you're like, you told yourself, you're like, I want to be a brow artist. I want to do this.


I want to do that. Just you putting your mindset into that. What do you think that did?


[Speaker 1]

Oh, if Jim, it brought it to me.


[Speaker 2]

It just put it right over in. Yeah.


[Speaker 1]

It was me not even realizing that I manifested everything that I needed in my life. It was, I mean, same way that I had, you know, two months before I met my husband, I wrote down what I wanted in a man.


[Speaker 2]

I literally did that same exact thing when I was caught on the morning.


[Speaker 1]

I just had one of my receptionists do it. And off topic, but on topic, in 2024, every year, Lexi does for 24, last year was 23 goals for 2023. Yeah.


This year, 24 goals, 20, 2024, everyone should do that. But I was talking with the receptionist and I had her do that, like write down what you want. Just four pages out.


And then she goes, I don't know if you get 24, about your business, you can get four pages on a man, but not 24 wants for your business.


[Speaker 2]

I don't think so. Mine was down to the detail. I was like, okay, snowboarding.


We need to go snowboarding. You have to have tan skin. You have to, like, I was like, bam, bam, bam.


This is what we're getting. This was happening. And if it's not happening, I don't want it.


Literally everything. I'm like, okay. All right.


All right. You're a little too nice. But wow.


Well, look, that's loud.


[Speaker 1]

It works. And it's not like, you know, you got to pray to a specific thing, it's whatever you believe in. You know, if you believe it's going to, it's meant for you, then it's going to come.


And I believed that I was good enough and I was meant for being something like that, a specialist, a brow, you know, they cut people come to me specifically for that. Okay. I can make this happen for you.


You know, it's, it made me feel good. It made me feel wanted and special. And then I just kept going.


And that was the business aspect of it. You know, if you've always got this thing of, you know, you're ebbin and flowing with what is coming in your door, your business is going to go where it needs to be. So if you're intuitively doing business, you're going to intuitively enjoy it.


[Speaker 2]

It's exactly right. And it's also like, I think people's, you know, struggle with finding like ideal clients health, struggle with, you know, so all of that is it's exactly what you're talking about. It's, you know, I want this person to treat me this way.


It's like, it goes into relationships. It's everything. It's like, if you're allowing somebody to treat you a certain way, of course you're going to treat you that way.


If you were saying these are my expectations, these are how you're going to treat me and otherwise you're not going to be in my life. You're not going to be my client. You're not going to be, it's all translates and then it's not going to, you know, those people aren't going to go.


[Speaker 1]

Boundaries come with the fact that you have to be okay with yourself and not people please and know exactly who you are.


[Speaker 2]

Yeah, it took me a long time to get there. That's was something I used to have a hard time controlling like my room, I guess I would say, even even up until last year. So I should probably want to kill me because I'm like, I still had people on my client list that would give me anxiety.


I would see their name and I would see them for two weeks out. I would see their name on my list and they're coming up for an appointment. I'm like, oh my God, I can't.


This person, I can't. It's like, I literally can't physically. They're going to don't book anybody else after them.


I'm going to be so stressed out. Like, I can't and it's like, I'll be like, oh, Amber doesn't deal with that shit. No, I do.


Like, and not anymore. I don't because last year, literally in the entire year, I was like, all right, Sasha, let's look at all the appointments. We're looking at all the appointments.


Anybody on that appointment list coming up, they're getting scratched off. They're not my client. They're not allowed in the studio.


If they're stressing me out, cross them off the list. I don't give a shit. I don't get, you know how many bad reviews we've got from that too?


Like, which is sad, but it's like, that's exactly why you're not my clients. The funny thing is, is I won't even let those bitches in the door. That's, it's a you.


I went home last year. Well, I let those people, I didn't set boundaries. I let no people treat me that way.


I let them treat me that way. They were used to being able to be like, this spot is here, that, there, this, that. And I'm like, now you're stressing me out.


You're not going to get pretty eyebrows because you're stressing me out. You need to let an artist be an artist. I fully believe that.


And if you don't, you're going to get shit ass work. Like stop having control over the over. It's like going to a body tattoo artist.


Am I going to say you had to do a realism tattoo? Right. I don't know shit about that.


I don't know what that's going to look like. Are you kidding me? No, I would never.


So like, why do people feel like it's OK to come into the studio and be like, and then, then, then, like, no, you're not going to have strokes.


[Speaker 1]

You have oily skin.


[Speaker 2]

I'm not going to do hair strokes and oily skin because it's going to feel like shit and I don't want that shit on your face with my name on it, right? Like, so it's like setting those boundaries.


[Speaker 1]

It's just like, oh, my sister is a hairdresser. We have this conversation when she was in hair school and it was like, oh, you don't like her. Why don't you just, you know, mess up her hair or, you know, did it.


I'm like, but then I have a bad reputation from that. That girl's walking around like, Oh, my God. What?


Oh, so and so did my hair. I saw that in hair school and I went, I'm not going to live my life. But that way, you know, and it's actually recently crossed over into another part of my life or last, but if you talk shit about me or my, my, the way that I treat people is always consistent.


But so if you talk shit about me, everyone's going to know you're buying. So and same thing with you. It's like if you like, if somebody is upset with, you know, oh, I did, I am or didn't do the brows that I wanted.


Well, did you get brows that you maybe couldn't have? Yeah.


[Speaker 2]

Well, and you know what, I got to pause you real quick because I remember, what was it? Maybe three years, two or three years ago. I remember you and your community came and had my back.


Do you remember when that girl, I don't even know who it was because she had a fake account, but you remember when that girl came on social media and she literally like started leaving bad review, bad review. It was like one after another, you and your girls, I don't know who they even are. I'm like, came and I, all of a sudden, I was like, I was fire signs.


I got like one battery also. They got like 75 good ones. And I was like, oh shit.


So I was like, you just handled it. That was you and your crowd.


[Speaker 1]

I'm like, when you treat people good, they'll have your back. And like when you're consistent in business, they'll trust you. If you're consistent as a friend, they'll trust you.


If you're consistent, you know, you know, treating people well, you're going to be treated well. So it's just it's consistency, man. That's that's like something that I live by.


[Speaker 2]

I'm like, like, people know back. When I'm like, I feel like people like it's like, you know that person's soul. It's like, you know that that person.


So somebody says somebody comes to me and like they haven't, but like say, somebody came to me and like said something about Jackie, this that. I'm like, nah, I'm like, you're wrong. I'm like, I've known that girl.


I'm like, you can say whatever you want, but I'm going to stop you real quick. And first off, you're going to talk to shit in the same room with me because I'm going to be like, hold up. But you don't talk to you.


I'm a Sagittarius. Yeah, I sometimes I get my mouth gets me in trouble. I think I'm muted, but I'm not always in a lot.


But yeah, no, I just like people know your soul and they know different. Like, so what do you, I don't, you know, I, because I hate folks in. I'm like, bad reuse negative shit.


Like it's like, so what? Let that person say something. And it's like, people know who you are.


Like at this point, I'm like, I've been in the industry for so long. I'm like, you're going to go leave a bad review about one of my artists because you had a light spot in your eyebrow, like kick. Sorry, old school kick rocks.


Like you don't need to come back to the studio. You don't need to be in here. Like we don't need the extra stress because we know we care so darn much about what we do.


We're so particular about what we're putting on your face. We want we like you can't care more than what we care. Then we do.


No, period.


[Speaker 1]

Like you've got a problem. It's all about your approach to 100% trust me, because this is what I specialize in. One hundred percent light spot in your eyebrow and you come at me all mad.


[Speaker 2]

You know, do you think I want you walking around with a light spot in your eyebrow? No, like you're going to show everybody that light spot. I have anxiety or just thinking about it.


Like, I know you're going to go show. Look at this little lights. They're good.


But look at this light spot. OK, no, that gives me anxiety. Like we don't want that shit walking around like, but approach nicely.


Like yeah, tattoo is a tattoo. Like, oh, anyways, oh, I'm like, we were supposed to talk way more about business, Jackie, but we are just talking. I think we're going to have to like just bring you back on and like talk about.


Because we want to hold Nick. I was like, oh, we should go to Vegas.


[Speaker 1]

Oh, in person. Like, oh, my God, my brows are so light. You have to make up on your eyebrows right now.


Well, oh, no, no, no, no, no, I'll make up on your eye.


[Speaker 2]

You have no makeup on your eyebrows right now. You got to be freaking kidding me.


[Speaker 1]

So January of 2021. Is when I came in in the height of the pandemic and I got my eyes and my eyeliner, my.


[Speaker 2]

Oh, my God, my eye. So you have no makeup on your on your stuff right now, girl.


[Speaker 1]

I have makeup on my liner, but and I have lashes on and then some faded.


[Speaker 2]

You look freaking phenomenal. Holy shit. Like phenomenal.


Well, I think we probably are running out of time, but I am going to schedule. I think we should bring you back for like, let's talk like all things like, I don't know, like vibes, zodiac, like astrology. You need to come to Vegas to see Dita.


[Speaker 1]

Dita is at the Jubilee.


[Speaker 2]

I know she is.


[Speaker 1]

So I have her show. I know. If you have a Dita, you need to go see Dita.


[Speaker 2]

I think I might be going. So if I, if I go, I'll take pictures and send them to you. I'm so excited.


But anyways, yeah, if I go, I'll take lots of pictures. I'm going to dress up super cute. I clean up nice, you know, whatever.


It's an idea. I do. But yeah, well, let's, let's, yeah, let's schedule time and we'll get you back on.


Let's talk, let's dive deep and I, because I got so many more questions about like that business, like that mentor that you have on the backside, I want to know all the things that you learned from 10 years ago till now, like we'll schedule some time, maybe coming up like a little later on, like January, February and get you back on here and let's talk about some more topics. Because I feel like we just scratched the surface. We're like, maybe we'll do like a part.